Topher's Blog

HHN 29 DATES ARE HERE

12/15/2018

Greetings internet dwellers!

Universal, either unknowingly, or knowingly, has revealed the dates for HHN 29. On UniversalOrlando.com, under the Halloween Horror Nights section, it says that Halloween Horror Nights 29 will begin on September 6th, and run until November 2nd. Of course, all of this is subject to change, as this is very early in the game.

The early date, should come as no surprise to anyone. With moving Rock The Universe to February, it opened the door to start the event early. RTU had become something of a hindrance for HHN. The close proximity of both events, didn't help in the prep for the event.

With the HHN continuing to grow in popularity, and a certain rodent starting their Halloween event in freaking August, the shift to an early start was inevitable.

That's it for now. Hasta La Bye-bye.

15 Comments

Johanna

12/30/2018 06:45:16 pm

Hey HHNLEGACY. How do you think a cinematic universe based on the Icons would turn out like? Vs How would you do it?

HHN LEGACY

12/31/2018 01:25:46 am

Well, the short answer is, I don't want a cinematic universe with the Icons. Let them live in the universe that is the Horror Nights universe.

That being said, if we must, for it to work, you need convective tissue. For me, that's Legendary Truth and to a lesser extent, Fear, and the Legion Vessels. I've written a fanfic about this, which is actually a backdoor origin story for Chance.

Johanna

1/1/2019 11:33:06 am

Ya know, when you have a lot of time on your hands, you should make a blog post on this subject. I enjoyed reading some of your pieces in things like the archway and the “good old days” so this sounds like it would be a fun piece.

I’m especially curious as to why you hate the idea seeing as many other fans loved it (I think there’s a video on it entitled “HHN IN SARK UNIVERSE”

Revenge of John Lennon

1/9/2019 10:13:00 am

I know this is irrelevant but what’s wrong with a cinematic HHN verse’? Seems pretty awesome if you ask me

HHN LEGACY

1/9/2019 11:38:51 am

There's nothing "wrong" with the idea of an HHN cinematic universe. But the HHN universe already exists- within Halloween Horror Nights. It works fine where it is, in the medium that it's in.

The reach outside HHN, doesn't warrant it either. The Average Joe doesn't care. Universal couldn't even get their own horror cinematic universe in order.

When it comes to the Icons, the only real star power they have is Jack. Clowns have been done to death. And I personally don't like Jack anyway. He's been overused enough himself.

I personally have done stories for stuff like this. It's fun, but I don't think it could carry an entire cinematic universe.

Revenge of John Lennon

1/10/2019 03:08:08 pm

On the contrary, I think with good enough movies and decent storytelling, they could use the movies to give the Icons themselves some star power.

I’ve come to think the Icons were kind of wasted. Not just Lady Luck and Fear- the Icons have great backstories and character, but I feel they shouldn’t have been made for a theme park event. I mean why create such elaborate stories if it’s not portrayed at all in the event. I mean maybe there’s Terra Cruentus (not Cruentas), but even then I feel that they could have done more.

The Icons, as well as other characters (Bloody Mary) and settings (Shadybrook) should never been created for HHN. When you come to think about it, the characters of HHN can have some serious marketing potential.

(And now I’m just going to wrap up a list because I need to get this off my chest)

Imagine this:

•there was a movie about the Caretaker, and that movie was so inexplicably popular that they made Caretaker lunch boxes, teddy bears, a vinyl release of the Caretakers musical masterpieces, and tons of merchandise.

•Bloodengutz hosting MTV (like Freddy for Dream Warriors)

•The Director was instead A Batman Villain

•a RPG based on Terra Cruentus where you have to explore the treacherous terrains of the Queen, The Hollows and explore whatever Maldaken Pass is (seriously what was that story wise and Hhn wise). Hell they could even make it a Trilogy considering the Lords of the Rings similarities

•A Anime series by Naoki Urasawa or whatever that Death Note guy is exploring the chronicles of Mary Agana. Then when that gets popular, there could be Mary Agana chibi dolls, her appearing in a crossover game, and of course a crappy abridged series (I could go on and on the merchandise) Also I think she can be a Spiderman villain for some reason.

• Onviously, books on the exploits of Elsa Strict.

There’s so much potential for the Icons outside of the events, and even so in the events themselves. What if they made comic books based on Field of Screams and Ghost Town.

And to close this off, I don’t think Jack can have... anything. He doesn’t have anything unique about him that can make for a individual experience. I could see works on Robert Strickland, the Minister of Evil, even the Body Collectors (the only thing unoriginal is their design) but Jack and Chance is basically Joker and Harley ripoffs. (And that’s all the more reason I hate them so much

HHN LEGACY

1/11/2019 12:05:30 pm

The problem with all that is, the Icons don't have enough clout outside of the HHN space. All of that stuff costs money. Production, marketing, advertising, merchandising, tie-ins, costs dollars. It's a risk to for any studio, to sink money into anything. Nothing is a slam dunk for any studio. In the case of using HHN Icons, it's not financially viable for a studio to put some much effort into something that a fraction of an amount of people care about.

Bloody Mary can't be used, unless they pay the rights holder. That's why they haven't used her. Mary Agana they can use, but Bloody Mary is off the table. One of the reasons the Icons have been swept aside these days, is because they really are not needed. The event sells itself. While the Icons have been given some nice character development by Art & Design, they are first and foremost, a marketing tool. A face to sell the event. The nature of the event today, is very different than when Jack was first introduced. At the time, they needed him. Today, they don't. People come to the event because it's Halloween Horror Nights, not because Jack the Clown is there. People come to the event because Stranger Things is there. Not because The Caretaker is there.

The team has dabbled with the idea of selling outside material in the past. Most specifically, a comic book. They realized that outside of the die-hard community, people just don't care.

You already have a built in "Universe" within the event. The team thrives in that space, and it should remain in that space. I get it. Die-hards love their Icons, but realistically it's just not viable. Maybe, MAYBE we will see the idea of a comic coming back in the future, but beyond that, nah. Keep them at the event.

Johanna

1/11/2019 01:28:21 pm

I already mentioned this in the Bloody Mary hot sauce page, but by this point I’m convinced that the team doesn’t use Mary Agana because they hate her

Johanna

1/11/2019 01:33:30 pm

Also I think Revenge of John Lennon meant more like what if the Icons were made for movies and stuff but NOT HHN rather than the other way ‘round (Like what if The Catetaker was an IP that Uni licenses for mazes)

HHN LEGACY

1/11/2019 01:50:58 pm

Regardless, I still feel the same. At that point, they become cliche'. Bloody Mary isn't used because of rights issues. Not because they hate her. They own Mary Agana, but can't use the Bloody Mary we saw that year. And without that, Mary Agana is a boring character. She does nothing, and adds nothing.

Johanna

1/11/2019 02:41:51 pm

Can they really bring back Agana though? I think maybe the copyright prevents that too.

And if they really can, then that just further deepens my suspicions. I’m pretty sure they know Mary Agana is a fan favorite character, so why not bring her back for an anniversary year? Or a house to make up for the supposedly bad Reflections of Fear?

I read somewhere that they were NOT pleased with how 2007 was changed- at least at first. So maybe they had similar disgruntions (pretty sure that’s not a word) with the Mary license. After all she hasn’t been mentioned once since 2008, and not even referenced in HHN 28, despite it being her 10th birthday.

I didn’t attend Hhn yet, but I feel quite the opposite with the Mary Agana= Boring without the Bloody element. I was interested reading her diaries from the website as her madness deepened, but then when they brought up the garbage “Grandmother” and made her Bloody Mary she just got kinda stale.

Bloody Mary had basically NO personality and character post-transformation, just “Ahh I just scream and break shit and yarrgh”. Were told she was a vengeful spirit- and that made sense with the stupid Grandmother sthick but what does she have to be vengeful of NOW? She’s probably the least scariest character ever as the only way she can harm you is by the power is stupidity. Her design sucked too- a bland and unoriginal rip-off of the Samara/Kayako ghosts. Her motive is: she does nothing as Bloody Mary. She just screams and does something.

Hell even the best thing about her (backstory) is basically Caretaker copypasta with a few elements added.

And from what I’ve seen from sources, she didn’t have much of a presence- only a poorly- received house. Perhaps if she were given a stage show (BTW: All Icons Must Have Stage Shows. They just should) she might have warmed up better. Doomsday, Interstellar Terror, Creatures, and Dead Exposure feels like they were shoehorned into the Bloody Mary theme.

Also her backstory didn’t translate well in my opinion. If we were to strip away the backstory, how would we have any indication that she was used to be a psychiatrist? She just looks like some Sadako rip-off. It feels like with Bloody Mary and Mary Agana that there were two different characters spliced together- and not in a very good way. Going to the motive it went from “Let’s kill people to sate my fear of Death” to “Something”.

Of all the icons from HHN, she looks like one of the weaker ones. Maybe the team thought Mary was garbage too and decided not to include her anhmore

HHN LEGACY

1/11/2019 05:13:49 pm

Yes, they can bring back Mary Agana. Agana is their creation. What they can't use is Bloody Mary, or the likeness we saw in 2008. And that's the problem. And that's why we haven't seen her. They tied her to Bloody Mary. So, if she ever comes back, they would have to nix her Bloody Mary connection. Which also connects to Mary Worthington. And you said so yourself, Agana, is a boring character without the Bloody Mary connection. So, why bother? People only remember the face they saw in 2008, not Mary Agana. And the face they saw was Bloody Mary. The general public probably has no idea who Mary Agana is. Or Mary Worthington. They just know Bloody Mary. And like I said, Agana without Bloody Mary is boring. Bringing back just Agana, is stupid, and the team knows that.

The event doesn't cater just to the super die-hards anymore. And they shouldn't. The event is much larger today. 2007, was a banner year for them. If anything, 2008, made them mad. Just read Mike Aiello's idea for Crowe, which would have continued the story for 2007.

Johanna

1/12/2019 12:07:23 am

“And you said so yourself, Agana, is a boring character without the Bloody Mary connection. “

Actually what I meant was that I thought “Mary Agana” was interesting, but “Bloody Mary” was not. Agana has a personality, there’s nothing to “Bloody Mary”. Agana’s motive was “kill Fear”, Bloody Mary’s is... what?

You mention that they would have to nix the Bloody Mary connection if they brought her back. See my problem with the way the “backstory=now” was handled is that they can do just that.

Backstories don’t mean much to GP, and I think “Lennon” said that they shouldn’t belong at HHN, so then let’s analyze The backstory from the hardcore perspective.

With Jack, I think his backstory fits with who he is now (best backstory in my opinion). The Caretaker’s backstory, while reused from an unused character, fits with who he is now and adds to the creep factor. Mary Agana= Bloody Mary on the other hand, the Bloody Mary element came out of nowhere and is so irrelevant and inconsequential to the “Agana Blogs” plot that they could just have two different characters (Or in the “Bloody” persona, something resembling a character). Mary Agana, while more interesting in my opinion, was completely unnecessary for the Bloody Mary aspect as it added nothing and didn’t match at all. Hell this matches with their designs. Dr. Agana had a black dress, whereas Bloody Mary, for some reason, is now garbed in a Sadako cosplay that’s completely different and makes no sense. Seriously why is she wearing that drab thing? And again, as “Bloody Mary” the only way she can inspire fear is stupidity.

I get what you’re trying to say about the copyright hullabaloo, but if still weird me out that Mary was not referenced at least ONCE in 28. There were references to Jack and Eddie in Dead exposure, and supposedly Usher has a reference in Carnival Graveyard. So why no Mary reference, be it a cameo or a music box? The only reference to Mary since 2008 was Shadybrook 2010 methinks. Just keep me eondering.

As for your “Agana is boring” argument... well that’s your opinion man. I know of some fans who said they would love to see Mary Agana even if they ditch the “Bloody” aspect. And honestly, I think it should be dropped.

You mention a problem with the GP in that they have no idea who Bloody Mary is, and about “catering to the fans”. Now I don’t think they should COMPLETELY cater to the fans. That’s just stupid, and could shut down the event. But I don’t know why they shouldn’t cater to half the GP, half the hardcore fans. Or at least a third quarter of it. I don’t think that would be destructive, the GP can have whatever movie they want represented, and the fans could enjoy a decent mount of original content- which I think they’re sorta doing in that direction (half IPS, half original). Could satisfy both. They could even have an unofficial icon like the Usher, a story for the whole event and the “big bad” of the proceedings, just not featured in the main advertising.

As for the whole Bloody Mary thing, I don’t see how that’ll be a problem with the GP. They could have a house for Mary Agana, just not have her be the Icon (or an official one). They had the Caretakers Screamhouse in 2003 after all. They could have just had her as a single character walking in the ICONS scarezone. I don’t see why that would have a problem with the GP, and the fans would eat it up. I don’t think bringing Agana (depending on the how) is stupid, and I don’t see how they couldn’t cater even just a little on the “cameo” scale.

Now as for the Mary Agana idea, I’m going to copy this from a comment from one of the forums:

“if they retcon Mary, I'd rather her be removed from her mirror. There was great potential in Dr. Agana.

What I'd like to see what I've always suggested. Mary Resurrected. A play on Resurrection Mary as well as Mary not being stuck in her Mary world anymore.”

As for what I’m saying They could keep The eyes from “Bloody Mary, but they could remove the Kayako knockoff design and make her blonde. Put her in a red dress kinda a character also named “Bloody Mary” from the New 52 Batwoman comics (id personally add a red, gold, and blue color scheme though). She could become the next Terra Queen somehow, and screw up so badly that her country wages a war against her. Part of her backstory involved doodling what was to become her world, maybe that can go for a “homicidal artist” angle? They could stir up some controversy by having a house with a storyline where Mary Agana has a “church” dedicated to herAnd of course give her a damn stage show. Same thing with Chance. They s

HHN LEGACY

1/12/2019 11:27:00 am

You are missing the point here. All of this, is fanboy wishful thinking. The event has to do, what the event has to do, to get people into the park. The reason they have not used her, is because of the legalities. That's the bottom line. Icons, are first and foremost, marketing material. Bloody Mary, was the FACE of the event. Not Mary Agana. That is the image that sold the event. Mary Agana, is an alternate personality for Bloody Mary. If Agana showed up at 25, as Mary Agana, nobody would have known who she was. Hell, half the fanboys thought La Llorona was Bloody Mary that year. Agana's medical practice, was a way to connect the content, that's all.

The event tries to cater to die-hards where they can. However, most die-hards are ungrateful pricks who feel entitled to everything. No matter what the event does, they will complain about it. In the case of trying to retcon Bloody Mary, this would not go over well with fans. Couple that with Agana not being the most interesting character, and legal problems, it's just not worth their time. There have been references to Reflections of Fear, in various places, since HHN 25. You just had to know where to look.

IP's and the event itself are the Icon these days. Outsiders are what bring the majority of the bacon to the event. Icons will be used when needed, as we move into HHN 30. There's always the possibility that and Icon, Mary Agana or otherwise, will show up. However, that depends on the event, and what they feel will sell better.

Johanna

1/12/2019 05:53:47 pm

“Ungrateful pricks”

(Starts to remember the HHN 22-23 fan base problem)

Okay you have a point there

HHN 29 DATES ARE HERE

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